Pubs nights first step toward Kwantlen campus pub
September 10, 2008 by Amy Reid
The fall semester brings Kwantlen students a new status as a university, a new president and along with that, approval for a pub night.
The Kwantlen Student Association approached the school’s new president, Dr. David W. Atkinson, about creating a pub on campus soon after he arrived last July, said Nathan Griffiths, Director of Operations for the KSA. Atkinson was on-board with the idea and suggested starting with a pub night, as opposed to a fully licensed pub. Although the KSA is interested in creating pub nights on all campuses, Surrey is the only campus that currently has space to do so, Griffiths said.
Pub nights will be held Fridays in the Grassroots Lounge on the Surrey campus. “There are still finer details to work out with administration,†said Griffiths, adding that the KSA plans to focus on this project after CramJam is finished.
Griffiths says that the KSA has a “gentleman’s agreement†with Atkinson to aim to have a fully-licensed pub in one year.
“Campus pubs are typically a hub of campus culture,†said Griffiths. “Now that we are a university, its important that we foster bringing students together, bringing students and professors together.â€
Added Atkinson: “We’ll take another look at it at the end of the semester and I am absolutely convinced it will have been a success. We will look at doing more in the spring.”
This promise has been made before. What is the current KSA going to do to make this pub idea a reality? Is Nathan Griffiths kidding? A “gentleman’s agreement”? In other words, this will buy more time until the next KSA election so that the current KSA board can continue its useless time in office.
I have been at kwantlen for some time and I have seen nothing new from this so-called new board. The only ‘new’ thing seems to be a wasteful lawsuit against former directors. Griffiths should focus on spending money on making the pub a reality instead of spending thousands of dollars against former directors with which this KSA board has an obvious grudge.
Griffiths is showing (not poor) but NO leadership by wasting money. Meanwhile, hes promising a pub on campus. Is he for real? Griffiths, you should stop listening to the old board members and break with tradition. In other words, get something productive done!
I agree with the comment by “JOE”
The KSA is wasting too much time fighting its old wars with former executives. The lawsuit is a waste of time. I want my student society executives to focus on things like bringing a pub on campus, lowering tuition etc… and NOT carrying out a vendetta against their old political rivals.
And I heard a petition to reduce KSA fees to zero (which would take all money away from the KSA), was rejected by the KSA because it didn’t want the question to go to the students. Of course, if the question posed to students was “do you want to reduce the KSA fees to zero? AKA you pay less” who would be against it?
The KSA people should man up and go with the will of the student body. Drop the lawsuit so we’ll have more money to spend, lower KSA fees, bring a pub on campus, fight for better a educational experience at kwantlen, and basically make a difference in the lives of STUDENTS, not THEMSELVES…
Think about students for a change!
thats my rant
Derek
JOE, the “gentleman’s agreement” was not that there would be no pub on campus. If you had bothered to read the entire article, you would have read that pub nights would take place on Friday nights (although we believe that Thursday nights would be more popular because the majority of classes are typically done by 12 on Fridays).
The “gentleman’s agreement” was that the school is allowing us to do pub nights one night a week (they prefer Fridays). The administration would then look at the popularity and success of this weekly pub night at the end of the semester.
It’s easy to complain about how long something is taking if you aren’t doing anything to help further the plans.
Are you aware that the KSA is a democratic society wherein all voting members have a vote? The lawsuit against the former directors came as a vote to council. While not everyone voted in favor, it did receive a majority. Democracy reigns supreme, the lawsuit is taking place. Remember, you voted in the elected representatives of the KSA, therefore you have entrusted us with your voice and are entrusting us to make the right decisions on behalf of you.
Derek,
Your comment is interesting. You ask us to lower your fees but at the same time bring a pub on campus. Do you know how much the renovations would cost if we made a full-fledged pub? I do. We would not be able to lower fees if we were to put in a pub.
You are in favor of lowering the fees to zero, yet you want a pub. If the school were to put a pub on campus it would cost a lot more, and your fees to the school would go up. Which reminds me…
Our choice to not allow the referendum to go forward has nothing to do with the question going to students. It has to do with the fact that it goes against our bylaws, and the society act. Also, it is because there is no way we have any control over where in the administration the fees would go.
Please, come to the offices and come to our council meetings. I know for a fact that JOE and Derek, unless you are using aliases, have not been to a council meeting. At least not in the past 2 years. If you have, you would know that we’re working pretty hard at making a difference in your lives.
I’m really tired of students who haven’t talked to an elected official in the past 6 months complaining. If you want a difference, run in the by-election. There are a lot of positions open.
If “democracy reigns supreme,” then it’s simple…the bylaws should be changed, and the petition to reduce student fee’s should be allowed to move forward. O BUT WAIT! THE KSA CAN’T FILL THEIR POCKETS WITHOUT THAT. I c the dilemma.
R.A.F = stupidity + corruption
New Board = political swiftness + corruption
Both equations have the same X factor, one group hides it better then the other, isn’t the G.M making $77, 000 per annum according to the budget? That’s good money…student are suffering but the politicking must go on!
Joe РThe article is somewhat misleading as we will be serving light liquor on Fridays in the Grassroots Cafe. After reviewing how serving alcohol goes, we hope to be able to serve alcohol everyday sometime in 2009. Other event like pub nights will also occur from time to time but our drive has been to serve light liquor on a daily basis alongside our regular cafe menu Рlike you see at other cafes and small corner bistros you might find across the lower mainland, from Caff̬ Artigiano to Bojangles Cafe (both with multiple locations in Vancouver) and more. We already have a beer fridge in storage that was acquired by the KSA in 2004 when the KSA was on track to getting light liquor in place for 2005. Those plans were halted by RAF. On the pub night front, we have already had event type pub nights with bands / music / etc. over the past year and definitely will continue doing that Рand the open mics are definitely a step towards getting students interested in coming out to these kinds of things. And I have been encouraging campus councils to organize pub nights Рboth on campus and off at local establishments. This is important to do especially on the campuses without a cafe like we have in Surrey. The KSA has also supported a number of clubs that have organized their own pub nights. When I was Richmond Director we did three or four pub nights, and each one boasted a turnout of about 40 Р100 students, depending on the time of year.
Derek – the petition did not go forward because it would have had the effect of dissolving the society. This is what the Society Act refers to as a special resolution. There are a number of ways to vote on something as laid out in our bylaws – one method is referendum and a referendum is an ordinary resolution. A question that is a special resolution can only be dealt with by the membership at a general meeting with 250 people present. Those present can then discuss the pros and cons of the motion in an open forum and the question can even be amended by those present. 75% of the 250 then have to vote in favour of the motion for it to take effect. With a referendum there is no chance of having that kind of debate.
Kulvir – if the bylaws should be changed bring a petition forward to call a general meeting to do that.
In regards to the GM’s salary – the amount you quote is not accurate – the GM does not make $77,000 per year – that figure you quote includes all the statutory deductions (taxes, EI, CPP, etc.) that the KSA has to make on that employee’s behalf. It also includes the benefits he is entitled to under the KSA’s standardized compensation structure. Without looking at the budget I believe his take home pay is about $55,000 – $60,000 approximately after all deductions are accounted for. This is in range with what the former GM made (Penny Minor) before RAF came to power – and it actually might be the same amount. Furthermore, the current GM has also received no lifts in his salary since November 2006; although other staff have received reasonable increases.
No one is filling their pockets at the KSA. I really get offended by that statement. (Sentence has been removed by The Editor.) When the KSA was returned to the hands of students in November 2006, all elected officials took a pay-cut and went back to the pay structure for elected officials that existed before RAF increased it by more than 100%. In this year’s budget, there was some money provided to increase the wages of elected officials but it was a nominal amount – it was nowhere near as high as the increases RAF implemented. I left a very good paying job to come back and help clean up the KSA. Look at the same budget and you will see that no one is making outrageous amounts of money and in fact, people could probably do a lot better in jobs outside of the KSA.
And be grateful that you can actually access the complete information about what people are paid and how your money is spent. During the RAF era NO FINANCIAL INFORMATION WAS EVER made public to anyone – not even members of the Board of Directors in 2005 or 2006.
And as Ashley said – I encourage all of you to get involved. Some of the best elected officials the KSA ever had were those students who felt the KSA was not doing enough for them.
Ok Steve,
I apologize if I’ve offended you. Why should I be grateful that I have access to this information? It’s my right…(at least I think it is). I could really care less what the “RAF” party did, I’m a second year student. I’ve heard things about them through the KSA people and heard things in the community, but really who gives a hoot…I’m just interested in what you guys can do for me as a student.
The fact that you would leave a high paying job to come back and clean up the KSA, with all due respect, sounds like a load of bull to me. I mean really? I remember you approached me during the election and told me you’d been involved with the KSA since the late 90′s.
Feel free not to answer my question, but, considering Kwantlen is still considered more of a feeder school, does it make sense to stick around for close to a decade as an elected official? Do you really feel like you connect on a one to one basis with the average student? I don’t see the logic, there’s got to be something that keeps you around. Maybe I’m to much of a pessimist.
The other thing is that the voter turn out for the last election was LOW! I’m not accusing the KSA of not marketing themselves, but I will definitely say that low voter turn out means students really just don’t care or the KSA does not hold their interests (i.e policy is important but BORING! I looked at one set of meeting minutes and BAM i was asleep).
I’ve felt on a few occasions that KSA officials are really disconnected with the students on campus, some of the officials walk around like they’re better then others…that’s a load of B.S.
I know you stated earlier that I should get involved with the KSA by running. However, after doing some research I’ve realized that since 2005 every election has been contested in court!!! I’m a freakin student, I don’t have the time or resources to be involved in dirty politics. The other thing that comes to mind is that you would probably point the finger at the RAF and say, we had to take them to court ..blah blah blah…justice, democracy all that good stuff, but the first time around they took YOU guys to court and got a ruling in their favor!!! So either way it’s dirty man, I dunno.
I appreciate the response though, it’s wicked you’re taking the time to leave your feedback. My rant aside, I respect what you guys do.
Thanks for the response Kulvir.
Yes, I have been at Kwantlen on and off since the 1990s. I first wanted to complete the computer tech program at Newton and had to upgrade my math and science. During that time I also took some general study courses. I ended up not making it through the program in question and in 1999 decided to complete a marketing management diploma.
In 2001, as I was finishing my diploma, I decided to finish an associate of arts degree as I already had some courses that would work for it and it would also make it easy to transfer to SFU (which I was thinking of doing at the time).
And it was in 2001 that I first got involved in the KSA, first as a volunteer helping to organize events in Richmond. That same year, the staff person who worked on organizing events quit and the position was opened up. I was one of a number of applicants and I was hired as Events & Programs Coordinator in late August 2001 – a position I held until the fall of 2003 when I quit because I felt overworked and underpaid. At that time, I went and worked at Future Shop in the entertainment department, from November 2004 through April 2005. I completed the bulk of what I needed for the associates degree in 2004 and I also ran for Richmond Campus Council in the 2004 general election. I took office as a member of the KSA’s board of directors on April 1, 2004. I was re-elected as Campus Director a year later in the court contested election you spoke of. 2005-06 was going to be my last year in the KSA as I had decided to finish my degree at Kwantlen in business administration. But then things started going downhill in the KSA. I joined other good students such as Laura Anderson, Johnny Woo, Stafford Richter, Arka Movsessian, Robert Kovacic and others (including RAF members Mat Huff, Manny Dhaliwal and others) in fighting what was going on in the KSA. We spoke out at KSA council meetings asking for transparency and openness. RAF claimed they wanted to change things and we wanted them to be open about that change. Change in and of itself can be a good thing and I’ve never felt the KSA is perfect and I’ve always looked for ways to improve it. Our vocal opinions however lead to all those who spoke out against RAF being forced out. I kept up the fight in fall 2005, filing numerous complaints with the Society’s ombudsperson and documenting everything I could. If they didn’t kick me out I would have still been vocal at meetings but I probably wouldn’t have filed the complaints I filed or documented as much as I did. My girlfriend at the time helped organize a general meeting that was held in Richmond in November 2005 — it was her and students Lisa Coan, Mat Huff and Laura Anderson that did a lot of the groundwork on that meeting. With the help of Titus Gregory from SFU I drafted a new set of bylaws that were brought to the membership and adopted at that time. RAF ignored the general meeting and at that time we did not yet have the means to try and get the meeting upheld in court. I ran in the RAF elections in January 2006 but Al Gore could have run for President in that election if he had by chance been a Kwantlen student and decided that he wanted to be involved in the student union and even he would have lost to RAF. I submitted many election complaints and a number of other complaints during the spring 2006 but eventually as the semester ended I thought we had lost – and so I decided to leave Kwantlen. I got a full time job at BackCheck which started in April 2006. That company was growing rapidly and if I had decided to stay I probably could have done well there. I was making good money there – honestly. It’s not B.S. Shortly thereafter, RAF lost a bid to try and take control of the health & dental plan. In May or June 2006, they filed a petition in the supreme court to have the results of the November 2005 general meeting thrown out. So they sued us first. It was at this time that I was able to contact a number of people including Desmond Rodenbour, who helped us launch a counter suit against RAF. This resulted in the court ordered election and I was asked to run for Director of Finance.
During the time I helped fight RAF, I took one or two courses a term – many of which I didn’t do too well in. I took the courses so I would remain a student, which would give me the standing I needed to continue filing complaints, etc.
After the court ordered election in late 2006, I decided I wanted to come back to Kwantlen and complete my degree in creative writing / fine arts and I am now working towards doing that. But doing so meant I had to leave BackCheck. And to be honest, my quality of work at BackCheck was mediocre because of my decision to continue the fight. If it was out of self interest, I would have not contested the RAF petition. I would have walked away.
So that’s my history at Kwantlen.
————
I don’t know what research you have done, but not every election since 2005 has been contested in court. Obviously the 2005 general election was contested – the judge wanted to throw it out but let the polling results stand. The next election was the 2006 general election which was run by RAF, and the various complaints and issues candidates filed in that election were referenced in the counter-claim the students brought forward that summer. Those complaints resulted in the fall 2006 court ordered election. RAF tried to use the courts to have the election overturned but they failed and the results stood. Since the court ordered election, the KSA has organized by-elections in the spring of 2007 and a general election in the spring of 2008. Both of these elections were run by the same individual who ran the court ordered election as an officer of the court. You may have also read that the CFS referendum went to court – and it did. The CFS did not want the KSA to use the CRO who had been originally the officer of the court that ran the court ordered election in fall 2006. Ultimately the court said we could let him run the referendum. But no regular election since fall 2006 has gone to court, nor do we expect any future one to go to court. We’ve found a professional to run our elections, a guy that has run elections for many, many years. It costs a bit more than it used to, to have him do it but his experience means that the elections are run properly and don’t end up in court.
AAAaaa…it’s starting to make sense, but obviously it’s a complicated issue, or maybe I haven’t read over everything properly, just through google with the news and stuff.
When you say Al Gore could have ran and still lost, are you saying that the election was setup so the RAF would win, or are you just flat out saying they rigged it?
Other thing is, why do you think the voter turn out is so low?
IS the KSA doing anything for this federal election? In terms of campaigns and stuff, do you guys traditionally support a political party?
I actually voted in favor of keeping the CFS, they do good work and I think it’s important to stay under one umbrella, united, because strength comes in numbers.
I couldn’t establish whether you were done your degree yet. Man I just think that the KSA needs to be more open to students, it’s actually quite intimidating walking into the offices, I just feel like it’s difficult to approach people there. One of my friends tried opening up a club, he got bombarded with questions and the guy he talked to just went on about procedures and rules. I mean the average student just wants to do his or her thing man, without getting bogged down by the politics. Politics is your job not ours.
We are doing stuff for the federal election. We even hired a UBC student who used to be a KSA official in 2003 / 04 who helped at that time with the last federal election, to help our current Director of External Affairs out with things. We’ll have stuff in the media, and a big on campus campaign about voting. We do not support any one party though – we have a standing resolution adopted in the early 1980s at a general meeting that says the KSA will remain neutral and not support any one party. What we are doing though is asking each party to sign onto a number of promises for improving post secondary education in Canada. There might also be candidate debates on campus. Some exciting stuff is happening on this front and part of it is designed to roll into the municipal election and then next spring’s provincial election.
Good to know about the clubs thing. We do have all new staff in our events department now who deal with that stuff. I think I know who you might be talking about if things got bogged down in rules stuff.
Re: “When you say Al Gore could have ran and still lost, are you saying that the election was setup so the RAF would win, or are you just flat out saying they rigged it?”
It seemed clear that it was setup so that RAF would win it and there seems to be indirect evidence that the referendum may have been rigged. The ombudsperson at the time had a 20 – 30 page report recommending that the election should not stand and they voted to dismiss his recommendations.
Anyway, I’m feeling under the weather today and have a doctor’s appointment to get to. I still encourage you to get involved – all of our committees have at large seats on them for students to hold and there is a small honorarium available to students who help out on committees. If external affairs issues interest you then contact Derek Robertson, our Director of External Affairs who I’m sure would love more people to help out. He can be reached at extrenal@kusa.ca .
Cheers,
- S
Just one quick note:
The KSA has passed a motion in the past to stay non-partisan, ie we don’t support any specific party, as the KSA. We want students to make their own minds up.
as for clubs…I know exactly who you’re talking about that your friend talked to. There’s a new person in that position (it was a staff member). There are a lot of procedures involved, but for the most part it’s really easy to start a club. I’m sorry your friend had such a hard time, if he came back we would be glad to help him out.
Just one note that may or may not offend you:
A lot of students that have many complaints about the KSA, but never ever give us any solutions. I WANT to be more student-centred (I thought I was, seeing as I am a student…), but apparently I’m not. Please. Give us solutions, not complaints.
Hey Steve,
Bang on man I’ll be in the offices after my midterms. Ashley, I vote, voting gives me the right to complain, you’re my elected official, I complain, you come up with the solutions lol
But seriously I’ll come up with my own idea’s on paper, send it to one of you, and we can go back and forth no problem. I c what you’re saying, but you’re a public figure, you gots to take the criticism.
I agree. I am open for the criticism and I’m glad more people seem to be posting here at the Chronicle. I hope more people read it – the online forum is so much easier to interact with others especially since we are a multi campus institution. And it doesn’t waste paper.
Anyway, it’s super late so I should get some zzz’s. Come out to the Cram Jam this Friday and bring your friends.